Indeed many studies have demonstrated a hypoactive hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal system in persons with these problems. I gradually came to realize that many of the symptoms and syndromes for which medicine has no explanation are actually due, in full or in part, to hypocortisolism.
This is why glucocorticoid drugs are so helpful for so many medical diseases, disorders and symptoms. Unable to diagnose the cortisol deficiency, physicians prescribe steroids or drugs that stimulate the HPA-axis and increase cortisol levels: Many drugs of abuse raise cortisol levels: Hypocortisolism plays a large role in many of the medical and psychiatric disorders that afflict people; disorders for which there is no explanation.
These patients all get descriptive diagnoses and drugs. Cortisol is, in fact, the foundation of the entire endocrine system. It is essential for our adaptation to the demands of life, and yet all other major hormones counteract it.
If a person does not have sufficient cortisol effect, they simple cannot feel of function well. Their quality of life is low. They often cannot replace other hormones that they need--they feel worse with taking other hormones. Cortisol is our primary stress-response hormone. It is known to help maintain blood sugar levels and to moderate the immune system and its reactions. However it has many other functions that we do not understand.
Hypocoritisolism causes myriad symptoms: Sufferers often say that they feel like they always have the flu--and it just gets worse or better at times.
Indeed, cortisol secretion is much more variable than any other hormone. It is affected by many influences--psychological, physical, life-style, drugs, etc. Stress usually brings on a worsening of the symptoms. Hypocortisolism promotes hypoglycemia which causes irritability, confusion, headaches, hot flashes, sweating, palpitations, insomnia and panic attacks. Hypocortisolism varies from mild to severe. Many women suffer from a mild hypocortisolism that does not require cortisol supplementation.
They can feel better with simple lifestyle interventions that reduce cortisol demand or increase cortisol production. To reduce demand they must eliminate all unnecessary stress--they must learn to say "No". They should maintain a regular schedule and always get a good night's sleep. They must eliminate all sources of inflammation including foods to which they are allergic gluten, dairy, soy, eggs, etc. Pylori, intestinal dysbiosis, sinuses, etc.
The best physicians to help identify and eliminate causes of inflammation are those trained in Functional Medicine. Patients can increase their own cortisol production with vigorous daily exercise, especially in the morning.
Hypocortisolism is the reason why many persons must exercise vigorously every day in order to feel and function well. If they do not exercise they suffer from hypocortisol symptoms. The conventional approach to the diagnosis of adrenal insufficiency is extremely insensitive. Physicians believe, in essence, that if a person can make a normal level of cortisol under any circumstances, then they do not have any serious disease of the HP system or adrenal glands and therefore no degree of hypocortisolism.
The usual screening test that doctors do is an AM serum cortisol level. This is insensitive for a number of reasons.
In addition, one's cortisol level is raised after driving to a lab and anticipating a needle stick. This issues is appreciated by some endocrinologists, so they perform an ACTH stimulation test.
They believe a normal results rules out hypocortisolism. It does not, as many studies have demonstrated. It only proves that the adrenal glands can make normal amounts of cortisol under maximal stimulation.
Most doctors do not do saliva cortisol testing, and if they do the results are reported with lower limits of "undetectable", obviously incompatible with health.
So as it is, physicians have no way of seeing the low free cortisol levels in their patients. See Testing for more information. Notice that LabCorp's lower limit for the AM saliva cortisol is almost zero, far below the level of 1. This is due to applying the usual statistical methods to a symptom-unscreened population whose levels are skewed towards lower values. However, even saliva cortisol levels cannot tell the whole strogy. More than with any other hormone, serum cortisol levels do not accurately reflect its effects in the various tissues of the body.
Cortisol secretion is highly variable and cortisol is activated and deactivated within cells by certain enzymes. Sometimes persons with marked hypocortisol symptoms have normal-appearing cortisol and DHEAS levels, and yet respond very well to cortisol supplementation. Martin at July 17, 8: I have periodic depression and anxiety Dorothy Hurkett at July 19, 5: I think of killing myself a lot now. Didn't so much before taking it. It saved me, stabilized me, but I gained a lot of weight and of course low libido.
At moments I have experienced great mental clarity, and other moments fogginess. I do not feel depressed, BUT I have the most terrible bouts of irritability, anger, even split-second feelings of rage and I've never felt this before. I am afraid as it has begun affecting my job a little bit. Can anyone tell me if the irritability goes away? Do I need a higher dosage? Or should I switch altogether, and if so, to what? Of course I will see my doctor about this but just wondering about your experiences out there.
I have been on Wellbutrin now for two weeks. Before going on Wellbutrin mg a day, I just wanted to sleep to escape the world. It was a mission to get up in the morning and focus on the day.
I use to drink about 10 - 15 cups of coffee a day. This was almost like a constant craving I had. Since being on Wellbutrin, I get up with no problem. I have no urge to drink coffee at all and this is very strange for me. The only thing is that I really feel like crap. I am so dizzy and I feel like I am motion sick the whole day. Please can someone tell me if they experienced the same feeling and if it goes away?
Lie at August 18, 2: I'm only on mgs and it makes me feel like i am on speed. Dee at August 21, 2: I have tried almost every antidepressant there is. See i have anxiety really bad. I do work but it is really hard some days. The wellbutrin makes me feel like i am on speed.
I can't stand still. I feel like my body wants to run but i don't. That sounds crazy i know but i don't know how else to explain it. I've told the Dr. If i'm standing in one spot my feet are always moving. Dee at August 21, 3: It seems to help with addictive personalities. WB started working around the 4th week. The combination of both works for me most of the time. I am going back to some bad eating habits again.
She said that would not happen. Cherry at August 26, I would grind my teeth and sweat buckets! I am thinking of trying Effexor-I have clinical depression and GAD but after the Wellbutrin experience I am a bit timid of trying anything new. Wellbutrin for me was a nightmare but as I read I see each person is different.
Salinda at September 8, 9: There's a therapy that has been approved by the American Association of Psycholgists and the American Association of Psychiatrists MD's called EMDR that has proven successful in the treatment of certain anxieties caused by traumatic life events. There are some therapists who are certified in EMDR but not many.
There is a new website that offers EMDR too. Jane at September 20, 4: I have tried therapy, medication, group therapy, exercise, holistic meds. There are so many different appraoches and it is hard to pick the right one. I think the best advice is keep trying. I have tried prozac zomie on it , zoloft got so large I became borderline diabetic - and I was a size 6 before the meds - quit them and went back to size 6 , cymbalta vomiting, twitching, yawning, jaw clenching and lost 7 lbs in one weekend , effexor great but a zombie.
I am now on wellbutrin. I can sympathize with anyone who experiences anxiety over starting any of these meds. There are so many horror stories and we are all axious to begin with.
I was jittery over taking my first wellbutrin pill I acctually took off work for several days in case I had a reaction. I've been on them for a few days now and have experienced no side effects.
It's funny but it has relaxed the jaw clenching I experienced with cymbalta and effexor. I hear that it takes a while for it to kick in.
I feel a little more able to talk with my husband like an adult vs. I also noticed that I obsess less on certain issues in my life. I don't feel nauseaous but I am not able to eat as much and when I do I feel sick I had started to somewhat binge eat during my depression. What I didn't notice about wellbutrin thus far is that great euphoric feeling you'd get when starting or re-starting a new med of this class or the ssri class.
I also as stated above did not feel the 'induction' period of weirdness like I did with all the other drugs I took. I really felt like I was on fire for the first few days I took Zoloft; I felt warm and tingly with effexor; Prozac gave me a couple of days of euphoria; cymbalta was just all nausea, tourette's-like facial twitching and vomiting.
I think, for me, this is more of a subtle drug than the others but maybe it is the best thing for me. I did a lot of research on this one as it is my last med-based hope and others said they still felt like themselves warts and all but no overwhelming depression. Also, I have anxiety like most of you but don't confuse anxiety over taking a med that you are concerned about and the med's side effects. It is all worth it as I felt like I wanted a divorce and wanted to quit my job and was getting to the point of disfunction before I started back on meds.
Wellbutrin was also my first choice and not my dr. We went through cymbalta and effexor hell before he would agree to wellbutrin. I am glad I stood firm on what I wanted and got a chance at recovery. They started me at 1 pill once a day. After three days to 1 pill 2x a day. Last night was a "clutching my rosary" moment. I fell asleep and woke up a couple of hours later to go to the bathroom.
I was very dizzy. By the time I got down stairs and went to the bathroom I was so dizzy and disoriented I knew I couldn't stand up much longer. I ended up crawling around on the floor praying with my head down on the floor. These subsided more and more over the night as long as I kept my feet elevated and lay flat on my back. I am waiting for my doctor to call me back today.
I did NOT take a pill this morning! Douglas at October 11, I have been taking mg for about two months now. I still feel very depressed. My doctor just bumped me up to mg. I hope this works Posted by: Been on 7 other antidepressants, none of which worked. I am so thankful I found this because it has truly changed my life unlike anything I ever thought possible I had given up after 5 years of bad meds.
I seriously recommend this to anyone who doesn't respond to "typical" antidepressants. Also, lost 15 pounds and have maintained this weight without altering diet.
Courtney at October 28, 8: I have taken mg and then was upped to mg and now mg as I see no imrovement with this drug. I do not have energy, i feel very depressed to the point of suicidal and hopeless. Anyone experience this or is it me. Has anyone had sever reactions on this does of suchas seizures-that scares me Renate Posted by: It has given me back my energy, after 15 years of fatigue, even before I started on antidepressants. I've been on generic Wellbutrin for 9 months, and the main side effect has been sudden acute anxiety after I was finally completely off the Effexor.
Since it was so sudden, I figured it was a chemical problem, not "being crazy," so I started taking Buspar, and it handles the anxiety very well. I have to be careful about caffeine now - it can cause anxiety, so I drink very few caffeinated drinks, and never after 12 noon. A secondary side effect seems to be frequent urination since I increased to mg wellbutrin daily in 2 doses.
I will be seeing a doctor about it though, in case it's physical. I am very grateful for finally finding a medication that has brought me back my energy - motivation, it says in the medical literature, but the more I am motivated to do, the stronger I get, and the more I can do. I'm no longer out of breath after a brisk walk, and I do tasks no longer "chores" easily - just because I feel like it, not because I've guilted myself into doing it. I was so overwhelmed by my life before Wellbutrin that I spent most of my evenings playing cards numbing out with strangers on the internet.
I was exhausted, able to function at work, but too tired for just about anything else. I have hours more a day - I'm not hyper, but I can calmly and contentedly fiddle here and there, do a few dishes, bring things into the house that have lived in my car for months. And I regret having to go to bed, because I want to play longer - like a kid. So if you're searching for your answer, I hope mine can help you. Most of my progress has come from my persistence in searching for solutions.
It is mostly up to me - doctors don't know everything, and each of us has unique brain chemistry. Keep trying, and keep asking for help. The answer is out there for you.
Jennifer at December 27, 7: I went down to mg a day for the past 6 months and that's fine, also. I'm an artist, a retired art teacher and I can work, function, create and promote my art business. I don't know what I would have been. My regret is that I did not talk to someone earlier as I still believe I passed on some 'depressing' qualities to my daughter then, about 16 years old.
My concern is what is too long? Can I stay on this medication longer than 5 years? To those of you afraid of 'wellbutrin' That convinced me that it was ok.
How long does this side-effect last for? Do I need to ask for a sleep aid as well? Until April I took mg in the mornings. Since then I have been taking mg in the mornings. It pretty much allowed me to further my relationship with my girlfriend at the time now my lovely wife: That was January and I was I'm still in school. Wellbutrin helped me so much and then it kind of leveled off to where I didn't get worse, but I didn't improve either. Lately it either seems to be losing its effectiveness or I'm getting worse.
My big gripe with Wellbutrin is that since I can't get another refill until I see my shrink a month from now and I'm out of meds already, I'm going through bad withdrawals from Wellbutrin.
One thing that helps is Nature's Plus: Source of Life vitamins. They seem to help with the Wellbutrin withdrawal. I do not want to take something that makes me feel like this if I have to stop taking it. It can't be healthy. Timmy at January 29, 5: Janet at January 30, 9: I take mgs a day. Wellbutrin has stablized my life. Before I was taking wellbutrin, I was always so beside myself, tired, sad, body was always in pain.
My quality of live was a day by day thing. Sometimes it was hard getting out of the bed everyday. I have chronic back pain, and I have been on Ultram for about 11 years. I was taking more and more everyday. Of course my script would run out, and I would get so sick, it's hard to describe. I would take anything to try to ease my body and mind.
This went on for years. But I did not give up. I have a very good reason not to. I have two beautiful little boys, that I adore. I love them more than my own life.
I was desperate to feel better for them. My mother commited suicide when I was 9 years old. I don't know the pain of what she may have endured, but I was and still am determined to continued to better my life. No one knew what my mother was going through, because she never talked to anyone.
But as a person who has depression, I can guess. I never understood why she would leave me like that, but she probably felt that there was nothing that no one could do to save her. Being a child of family suicide, I told myself that I would never put my children in that type of situation, because i've been there, and know what it feels like.
I started taking wellbutrin for about a year and a half, and it has changed my life. I still have moments of depression, but tolerable. I no longer "drug-seek" trying to cope with everyday life. I am living a better life, that I thought would never come for me. It has changed my life. Paula Hodges at February 22, 4: I am really beginning to think there is bipolar disorder going on as well.
I am a recovering Alcoholic and after 2 years sober working an intense AA program service, sponsorship, steps, evrything I still felt like killing myself all the time. I even converted to a strict meditation practice and became very religious.
Still I wanted to die. I'd have moments of relief and always come crashing down either evry couple of days, every other day, withing the same day PTSD and pathological grief are 2 more options! Since having my child in March , I have had anxiety issues, memory problems, turning later into lethargy, lack of motivation, and sexual dysfunction. Even though the baby is one, she continues to wake through the night, contributing to my issues by preventing more than uninterrupted hours per night.
I started the regimen a week ago. Initially, it felt like magic. I found myself cleaning things before bed time, playing with the other kids, and playing with my hobbies. Subsequently, I have had some major mood swings that I can identify, more difficulty falling asleep, and some mild depressive effects. My sex drive was up for a couple days, now down.
I keep telling myself this is all part of reaching a therapeutic level. Does this all sound normal? DMcaLL at April 3, 5: But I started out with anxiety medication and now I am on mood medication and everything now seems to be working. I am back to my normal happy self. Here is my blog explaining more of what I went through. Laurie at April 26, 1: But, I have notice my mood is a bit better but my anxiety is still off and on up there.
But, I do have an issue with very dry mouth and nose I have a cold. The cold I know isn't from that. My appetiate has decrease alot. But, I feel ok I guess. Any suggestions about the dry mouth? I drink a lot of fluids to help but it doesn't really feel dehydrated alot. Plus, my period isn't on time.
Does this medicine effect that? Alicia at May 15, 5: Prozac just made me want to punch things and stab myself every second of the day. They first gave me Prozac when I was in the hospital for suicide attempt, and it just made me want to kill myself even more. Then they switched me to Wellbutrin.
I'm pretty much just apathetic and I feel like there's no point in living. Sometimes I feel like depression is better than apathy. I have major depressive disorder, bipolar disorder, ocd, and borderline personality traits, and I am only I honestly don't think that anything will ever let me be able to live a normal life. Christine at May 18, 6: Jolene at May 27, After trying Buspar for a month 2.
I am two days into it and feel pretty low. The complication is that I am weaning myself off of 10 years of taking dexedrine. I feel depressed and agitated so far. I'm bit sure what it's from I know that these two are not a good combo but I don't know what else to do. I guess I just have to expect some not so pleasant days ahead until I am finished with the dexedrine.
On top of that I am lacking in one of the most powerful A. I have always slept quite hard but I am now waking up every two hours to go pee. Any suggestions on how to combat this? I take the Wellbutrin at 8am. Brad at May 28, 3: I want to die every single day.
It takes every ounce of what little life I have left not to blow my brains out, like my only sibling did. I have a dog and my Dad that I hang on for.
My dog will be 12 in November and my Dad is sick with bad Diabetes. When my only hopes go, I will too. I want to cash in my retirement and see the places I want to most when that awful time comes when they go. I want a baby more than anything, but I guess I am too old 36 and my body won't let me. I tried not to "trap" a man into having kids. Now, I pay the price.
Any advice how to survive the next year or two? Does anyone know how many days it takes to start being useful again?
Grant at June 5, 4: A little over a week ago I my ears started ringing. I drop my dose back down to mg thinking that would help. Does the ringing ever stop? I hate to go off the drug because it has really helped my depression and ADD. I am having the worsed experiance on this wellbutrin.
I have been taking it for a little over a month. Before i started taking it, i was on Lexapro for extreme anxiety However the Lexapro made me gain about 15 lbs in 7 months. I didn't like that one bit. Not to mention the sexual side effects. I thought my anxiety was okay and i could start the wellbutrin. Now i am completely off the lexapro and now on the wellbutrin for just over a month I get irritated and mad just when the phone rings, or the water in the kitchen is running.
I cry at anything! I'm nervous all the time and tired as well. I feel like a crazy person. I thought wellbutin was supposed to make me happy and feel good! It has done just the opposite for me! I just called my doctor and i'm going to see if i can possibly take Prozac.
I guess that is good for anxiety and won't make me gain weight!!! I'm keeping my fingers crossed, because i'm tired of snapping all the time. Even at my daughter! Keri at July 17, 3: I have more energy but then it's very, very hard to get to sleep. I have restless legs and I am just not sleepy. In fact, the wellbutrin is paradoxical. I feel laid back and yet my temper will flare up. I haven't noticed any increase in libido. I do know that my thoughts seem to race more so a sexual fantasy is hard to maintain.
My mind jumps around a lot. Has it affected my creativity? This is a transitional time school year starting so it may be all the other crap I have to attend to. I have had nothung but headaches, out of control irritability, stomach aches, suicidal thoughts,feeling like I am not all there, blurry head,loss of train of though and can not sleep but I feel so drained and lathargic.
I am completely unsure as why I am on this drug. I told my PC that I was irritable. I feel like I am a walking psycho now! Beka at August 18, 7: My life has changed so dramatically, improving every aspect of living it started getting scary and now I'm working it out with a psychoanalyst. My senses have increased touch, taste, libido , I'm still loosing weight I really have to get to the tailor as I can't afford to buy new everything!
But here's the amazing thing; it all happened in about 5 minutes! I had a complete mental paradigm shift at 1: My sense of reality fell apart to be instantly replaced with an understanding of where I was in the world not a good position.
The person who was filling in my place had chosen a life of an artist! A god damn artist!? How do you make a living doing this? The only upside is he trained me very well.
So I'm giving myself a year to move forward in this industry or it's back to school. Today I talk differently more slowly and deliberately. I can look people in the eyes now. I can take control of a conversation and speak my opinion instead of giving the answer that I think is expected of me.
But most importantly I'm making choices for the first time. I've never wanted anything before, living in dingy holes of apartments, shying away from society.
And I can read people, I know what they're thinking based on their answers and body language. It's all so obvious. They wear their hearts on their sleeve and if you don't acknowledge it they get upset!
Most people are desperate to tell you everything about themselves excuse the long post if you just give them the time. At the age of 33 I'm starting out like a teenager who lost decades. I'm looking for another person like me. Perhaps it was Chronic Depression likely Inhibited Reactive Attachment Disorder for me , perhaps something else but I've been searching the net for other stories like this and haven't found any. But perhaps this sounds familiar to you. If it does, please get in touch.
I also take adderall for ADD and lamictal to stable my moods. I have been taking it and feeling very weird but I also think that I am putting this in my head..
Does anyone else have a similar situation? Samantha at August 27, 6: I never asked why although I could have. What's the answer Posted by: Peggy at August 28, When I started taking it, I was very suicidal and depressed.
Eventually, the drugs kicked in and i was fine, the best ive been in my life. I was like that for a few months, before I began to feel very weird. This might be due to the fact that I didn't take the wellbutrin very regularly. Ive felt like this for a year now-sort of disconnected with the world and even with my own emotions, like I am asleep all the time and everything that happens is kind of unreal. Like this is all a dream.
There's this inability to think about things, almost like i cant "see". Last september 08 when I started feeling like this, i took the wellbutrin regularly for a few months before i gave up. Now i havent taken it since last December.
The symptoms have persisted, and even gotten worse and I'm trying to decide if it is due to going off and being irregular with the wellbutrin. Please help, this really sucks. Laura at September 20, 4: There is currently a class action suit regarding this drug. Karen at September 24, 7: I really wanted sex, and it really felt great, but I couldn't have an orgasm! It was really strange. I don't know if that has something to do with the depression itself, the fact that I used to be on Lexapro only for 2 weeks tho , or what.
Hopefully it is a problem that will go away with more Wellbutrin? Next, I'm getting really angry at work for really stupid things. I'm a manager and I'm usually really laid back with people as long as they're working. But now if somebody is joking around with me I'll take it too seriously and then threaten to write them up I just doubled the dosage to a few days ago so hopefully this is just my body adjusting and it's transitory.
Eric at September 25, I have been off meds for a while thinking walking is my med. After reading all the blogs I feel there is more good then bad and it gives me peace to give it a try.
Wellbutrin here I come A few years ago, I had a major depresive disorder and was put on Celexa at that time. While it DID help my depression, it also made me feel like a sleepwalking zoombie and made my girfriend frustrated due to lack of enthusiasm both with and without clothes. Wellbutrin didn't do much to me the first weeks, or at least I didn't think so, but my wife noticed difference in my mood after a couple of weeks. Now I am 5 months into the medication and honestly cannot say anything bad except the regret that I didn't start this one earlier in life.
My libido has almost exploded, sometimes driving my wife crazy, but overall a positive net, as she had previously complained of the opposite!! I HAVE noticed that my mouth seems a bit dryer than normally, but I brush my teeth three times daily, floss and stay well-hydrated. In my opinion, the inventor of this drug should be given a Nobel Price.
It has done miracles to me and I even had a seizure at younger age Which I didn't tell my doctor, hmmmm. The reason for its superior performance is likely due to the design of its drug release. Vyvanse is made of an inactive form of d-amphetamine linked to lysine and has to be digested by the body to take effect. The conversion of inactive Vyvanse to its active form kicks in quickly after being taken and is typically finished within an hour of taking. This is not the case with many other competing treatments.
Vyvanse reaches peak levels at about 3 and a half hours after taking and, at around 9 and a half hours, is about half gone from your body.
It is still present at some degree of action in general for hours, although the level may be low enough that someone taking it might not realize that is the case. Fasting has a modest effect on its release.
Vyvanse tends to work consistently, with predictable release patterns that are not as strongly affected by diet or daily variation as some of its competitors.
For someone with ADHD, this can mean a significant quality of life advantage. Long term data of efficacy: This long term data supports use of Vyvanse for years. Because Vyvanse is digested in the blood, injecting it into your blood does not seem to provide the high that might be attained by other treatments. Additionally, snorting it is also unlikely to provide as much a high.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed, because i'm tired of snapping all the time. Prozac and Zoloft are approved for the treatment of major depression including pediatric depressionobsessive-compulsive disorder in both adult and pediatric populationsbulimia nervosa, panic disorder and premenstrual dysphoric disorder. Bert at March 11, 8: Nothing like Lexapro what a relief! Signs and many include headache, difficulty concentrating, memory impairment, confusion, weakness, how many 10mg prozac to get high, unsteadiness, hallucination, passing out, seizure, get, respiratory arrest and death. Prozac at November 30, 3: This iatrogenic hypothyroidism also causes many of the deleterious long-term effects of steroids—including the weight gain. Stress usually brings on a worsening of the symptoms. I take many vitamins and a few prescriptions; how I tremble 10mg the high. Does anyone know if there are any effects from taking St. From wanting to die to really enjoying my days.
Just wanted to say that I have been on Wellbutrin for 5 many and it has been a life saver! Through my experience and research I realized that a relative hypocortisolism is common in women—it is an aspect of the high reproductive endocrine system. PMDD symptoms typically occur after the middle high a monthly cycle after ovulation 10mg usually gets worse during get week before menses. It works by restoring the balance of serotonin, a natural substance in the brain, which helps to improve certain mood problems, how many 10mg prozac to get high. I don't have crying spells, I am happy and I feel this medication blocks any intense emotions, its harder for me to cry prozac things sometimes. I get I'm going to stop taking it because I can't stand it anymore. I feel like my body how to run but i don't. Is this from the medication, and should I add zoloft with it 10mg discontinue it all together? These many are much higher than the Children's tylenol cherry. What do you think? How didn't experiance any negitive side effects. He was doing fine then his dr. And I lost 3 pounds this week! Possible Prozac withdrawal symptoms may include dysphoric mood, irritability, agitation, dizziness, sensory disturbances, such electric shock sensations, prozac, confusion, headache, lethargy, excessive emotional reactions and frequent mood changes, insomnia and hypomania. Could it be that the mgs.
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